The Big Deal About Small Talk!

As an adult with autism small talk is the most difficult of all communication and yet it is likely the most important communication skill when it comes to developing real relationships with other human beings.

Example of Small Talk
I think of small talk as all the word fluff that people lacking autism (love to say it that way ☺) seem to require. I was reminded again last night when a dear friend popped out to chat online with me. Here is how our conversation started:

Susie: hey
Judy: what
Susie: “what?” geez, was just saying hi
Judy: STARTING OVER!
Judy: hi back
Judy: PS Forgot the fluff. Guess I skipped too much blah blah blah. Forgive me?
Susie: LOL no worries

Why Small Talk is a Big Deal
Because Susie is a good friend the conversation moved on. But, consider this – Susie has known me for years. She understands I am not wired to automatically engage in small talk just like I understand Susie is wired to expect small talk to occur. Since there are more Susie’s than Judy’s in the world the onus is on me. If I want real friendships I need to engage with other people in a way that shows them I value their friendship. This makes small talk a BIG deal!

Small talk is also a BIG deal in when it comes to business relationships. It is difficult for me to understand why, when a boss says, “Time is money” meaning that workers should not waste time he would then EXPECT all workers to engage in a certain amount of small talk with every business transaction. This just goes to show that small talk is a very BIG deal!

Small talk is such a BIG deal that we are even expected to carry on with perfect strangers using small talk! This is particularly befuddling to me, but it is true that the expected polite thing to do is use the fluff words of small talk everywhere you go. Yesterday I did errands and watched for the small talk. It fell out of the mouths of the grocery checker, the postal worker and the bank teller (even it was the drive through!).

Help for Engaging in Small Talk
Because small talk is such a BIG deal I have made it my business to learn about it and become proficient enough to use it so as to fit more comfortably into the world around me, having more positive encounters with strangers and business people along with better relationships with close friends. Here are some things that have helped me:

  1. Watch for small talk: For many weeks I intentionally watched for small talk when going on errands, working and spending time with friends. Once I started watching for it I was able to identify it. This helped me to understand what sorts of things were considered small talk.
  2. Find appealing aspects of small talk: For example, even though I find small talk difficult, I do very much enjoy the predictable repeating pattern – basically, you can count on small talk to be part of most conversations so the pattern repeats with each conversation regardless of the conversation partner.
  3. Identify the small talk topics: The topics I have identified include the weather, the weekend and compliments. It has been helpful to me to know these topics that usually come at the beginning and sometimes at the end of a conversation are small talk in that I don’t need to pay close attention or remember all the details. This allows me to focus on the more important words that usually follow the small talk in business transactions.
  4. Writing Scripts Ahead of Time (Endow, 2006, pg. 52): My brain cannot retrieve something it hasn’t stored. Writing Scripts Ahead of Time allows my brain to store the generic small talk fluff words so that I can pull them up and use them without needing to waste the energy it takes to create my portion of each small talk transaction that my brain otherwise reads as novel. I have scripts for the weather with a multiple-choice feature to accommodate current weather events. Here is one small talk weather script I use: “How are you liking this (heat, cold, wind, rain, sunshine)?
  5. Play acting scripts: It will not work to simply repeat rote small talk scripts. You will come off looking very odd. I have found it helpful to think in terms of play-acting. This allows me to match the information of the script to the real life setting. For example, to a friend I might ask, “So, what’s the scoop on your weekend?” With a business acquaintance I might ask, “Did you have a nice weekend?”
  6. Build word sandwiches: Whenever I have something important to say I pop up a picture of a sandwich. This shows me that my important words are the filling, but I need to build the sandwich, with the bread being the small talk words. The sandwich pop up reminds me to start and end my important words with small talk. It is amazing how much better people like my ideas when I sandwich the idea in small talk!

Summary
In conclusion, remember: if you teach communication or social skills to folks on the autism spectrum please embed the art of small talk along the way. As autistics our learned communication strategies fall flat without small talk. Many of our learned social skills put us in a position next to other human beings because we have learned their ways and are able to look like them. But if we have not learned the art of small talk we appear awkward, are easily dismissed and sometimes teased. Please teach us the art of small talk because it is a BIG deal.

*In this video, Endow reads the introduction to her book.

Reference

Endow, J. (2006). Making Lemonade: Hints for Autism’s Helpers. Cambridge, WI: CBR Press.

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Judy Endow, MSW About Judy Endow, MSW

Judy is an author and international speaker on a variety of autism-related topics. She is actively involved in many autism organizations. Besides having autism herself, Judy is the parent of three now grown sons, one of whom is on the autism spectrum. Learn more about Judy Endow .



  • Robin Parker

    Love this post. The tips will be helpful for those of us teaching small talk as well as for the learners of small talk. Love the way you found predictable patterns and separated the small talk from the ‘important’ words from the actual ‘business transactions’. All of your tips are awesome. Thanks for sharing your perspective on communication. It is immensely helpful!

  • Amy Sequenzia

    I am non-speaking but I don’t type small talk either. And other people’s small talk makes me drift away, most of the time

  • Darlene S Bartlett

    Thanks so much for this blog on small talk, I have saved it to my timeline to share with my oldest autistic son, and also shared it with my youngest son who works with special needs children. I get a lot out of your video, too. The allegory is one that I as a brain injured person(X2TBI’s) can easily understand. It reminds me of the time that I told my three boys to “cut it out” when I was trying to study and they were making a great deal of noise. My oldest, Bill, came up to me with a pair of his small scissors and handed it to me and asked, “What you going to cut out, Mommy?” and I gathered him up in my arms and attempted to explain by saying, I just wanted a little more quiet to study, sweetie…He and his brothers went to the porch and quietly played.

  • http://www.facebook.com/JudyEndow Judy Endow

    Yes, Darlene, we are often very literal and concrete in our thinking. When I heard the words, “Time flies when you’re having fun” I thought it meant that when you person was having a good time the thing they were supposed to do was to time how fast it flies to fly from one place to the next. Thus, I asked “How do you know when to start?” Really – flies do not line up on a starting line and a have a “1 − 2 −3 – go” so I really did not understand how a person actually timed flies. Now I understand the saying.

  • http://www.facebook.com/JudyEndow Judy Endow

    Amy, you are too funny, but of course – it makes total sense! Thanks for chiming in :)

  • http://www.facebook.com/JudyEndow Judy Endow

    I am glad you find this blog helpful Robin. I think it is important that we all keep sharing ideas so people do not not need to each learn the same thing when we can learn from one another. Thanks for your comment.

  • Darlene S Bartlett

    Even now, as an adult, I try very hard to stay in the present tense and very focused on what I say to my son. Once in a while, he will come up with a very poignant saying such as “What a beautiful day it is to walk outside and sit in the sunshine to get some vitamin D.”, and I will wonder how he happened to connect with that. He is a once a puzzle but a complete joy to be around and I do so thank my God that I was able to bear him and know him as my son. I am so pleased to have made your acquaintance and learn more from you.

  • Mandy Craven

    Thanks Judy.

  • http://www.facebook.com/JudyEndow Judy Endow

    Likewise, Darlene – I am pleased to have made your acquaintance and learn how things work for you and your son. Take care.

  • Josh M.

    Thanks for this article… I have never been diagnosed with autism but have always had trouble with small talk and unfamiliar figures of speech which makes it difficult to make friends. It’s good to know that I’m not alone in having to logically work through something that seems to come so easily to others.

  • http://www.facebook.com/JudyEndow Judy Endow

    You are not alone, Josh! Be assured there are many out there.

  • http://www.facebook.com/JudyEndow Judy Endow

    You are welcome!

  • http://twitter.com/NeuroBooks Vrinda Pendred

    I did the same thing. For years people thought I was just rude or
    disinterested. Then I studied people and developed a mental list of
    things to say and how to respond. I still get thrown when people
    surprise me with a question I didn’t prepare for.

  • Jamie

    My girlfriend is Autistic. Reading this article has given me a lovely insight into how Autistic people see and learn things. When we first started dating, I never knew she was Autistic. Over time she told me that she was in fact Autistic and that she was scared to tell me in case it had pushed me away. Now we are in love and I wouldn’t change anything about her. I like to read up on articles and remember as much information as I can because one day we might have autistic children together and I would like to be prepared. Thanks for an amazing read :-)

  • http://www.facebook.com/char.brandl Char Brandl

    For the past few years, I have helped to run a social group for young adults with autism who are essentially nonverbal and who type to communicate. It has taken us – the “leaders” who DO talk – some time to realize just how difficult small talk can be. We’ve tried to compile a list of possible topics: sports, music, holidays, weather, politics, etc. but have mostly met with resistance. Just yesterday, our group of typers – by their own choice – delved into issues such as dealing with depression, loving/not loving yourself, loving/not loving life. It was one of the best discussions we’ve ever had, as painful as it was to realize how much they struggle with dark feelings. I wish you could have been there!

  • http://www.facebook.com/JudyEndow Judy Endow

    Char, autistics need to learn the art of small talk in order to fit into a neurotypical world. We do not at all need small talk to fit in with each other!

  • http://www.facebook.com/JudyEndow Judy Endow

    I still get thrown too at surprise comments or questions. I have some lines I can use for just such occasions that I’ve developed over the years such as, “Oh, that is an interesting comment!” or “What an interesting question! I’ll have to think on that one.” Even though these comments add no relevant info they buy time and most often the other person doesn’t even seem to care if I come up with an answer, but mostly just seem to want me to take my conversational turn so they can get on with what they want to say or feel they have engaged and are free to move on to the next person!

  • http://www.facebook.com/amangelosanto Anna Maria Angelosanto

    Dear Judy,
    Boy, I learn something new about autism and autistics from you each time I ready your insightful articles!!! Thank you for giving me the tools to help my child out now and in the future!!!
    Bless you!
    Anna Maria

  • Josie

    Judy, love the sandwich idea! Thank you so much for sharing your insights

  • http://www.facebook.com/StephanieAllenCrist Stephanie Allen Crist

    Excellent point. Small talk can be a struggle for me, too, especially when it involves a lot of repetition of things I already know or were already conveyed to me in a different context.

  • Chelsea

    This is why I never bother getting past acquaintanceship with most NT females. Honestly, I do not feel that I am missing out on anything. Besides, it is not all black-and-white. I have met plenty of NT men and women who prefer to keep frivolous chatter to the minimum.

  • http://www.facebook.com/JudyEndow Judy Endow

    Thanks for weighing in!